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http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-f...tact-with.html

"Problem with all 600+hp lingenfelter vettes Ive come in contact with...

I consider myself a pretty classy person, not one to talk bad about anyone, but there is a problem that I have PERSONALLY remedied on 4 lingenfelter high horsepower cars over the past 10 years that is a SERIOUS, engine killing problem.

My encounter today with lingenfelter really set me over the edge, so I have no hesitations any longer in describing their flaw, because I have been explaining it to them for 7 years, and they still continue to do it on their cars. Im amazed no one else has made a thread about this yet.

THE PROBLEM:

If you buy a Lingenfelter twin turbo or even a supercharged car that makes 600+hp at the wheels, you may notice on the forum that other guys with similar builds are making more power with similar hardware.

*This is because Lingenfelter does not upgrade fuel systems properly.

In addition...

*Lingenfelter puts INTENTIONAL BOOST LEAKS and BOOST RESTRICTIONS upon building their cars, which COINCIDENTALLY limit the cars boost to just below peak fuel at top rpm on the dyno.... which keeps them from running lean and exploding.

Why is this bad?

If you were to happen to fix one of these leaks, or your mechanic ACCIDENTLY fixes one of these leaks, if he has to take off one of your boost pipes...
your engine runs lean and detonates.

Why do they do they not fix the leaks, or rather, why do they intentionally create the leaks at Lingenfelter?

Because they dont go the extra mile and upgrade the fuel systems on all of their high horspower cars. Thats where their "Performance Engineering" forgot to "Engineer"

Another problem is, the turbos, engine, backpressures... everything is still receiving almost full stress, but the boosted air is going to atmosphere.

So what is my basis for this crazy claim?
How much air is being leaked off?
And how big of a swing in power are we talking?

My family owns 3 chevrolet stores, among 18 other franchise. 2 we recently sold in the past few years. But at one point, we employed 50+ GM certified mechanics, that I have at my disposal to pick appart these cars and see where they are flawed. I also visit other shops in the central ohio area, and see them bumping into problems with lingenfelter vettes as well.

Here are the 4 cars I have personally had my hands on...

1. 1999 Orange Flame Paint job Lingenfelter twin turbo vette with a 427 c5r racing block and black ostrich skin interior. I came across this car in the year 2005. It was making less than 640 at the wheels. We noticed there were these strange slice marks in the boost pipe where it was hard to be seen or noticed. A local shop replaced the boost piping. Put the car on the dyno... the car ran out of fuel around 5000rpm.

Let me repeat. The car ran out of fuel, at 5000rpm. Twin 30mm turbos, on a 427, with an open checkbook to lingenfelter when it was build (ostrich interior folks, orange flame custome paint job like youd see on a harley)

And 1... walbro 255 pump in the tank.

We added another 255 into the stock canister (a custom fabrication) and the car went back to the dyno and made over 800 at the wheels.

2. 2002 Black z06 twin turbo. Car made 670 at the wheels. Boost leaks fixed. Car ran out of fuel at 5200 rpm. Fuel system upgraded, car made 780 at the wheels. Car originally left lingenfelter with 1 255 pump.

3. 2006 red Supercharged lingenfelter c6 ls2. Car made 630hp at the wheels. Boost leaks fixed... Car ran out of fuel at 5600 rpm. Fuel system upgraded, car makes 730hp at the wheels.

4. My most recent lingenfelter vette, which i had up for sale, but i decided to keep it, and can be seen here on the forum with the large wing on the back... a 2007 Black twin turbo z06 ls7. Not sure what the car made originally... All i know is i didnt care, and didnt waste the dollar on the dyno, and went straight to the boost leaks.

*ALL THAT I IMPROVED WAS THE NOEPRENE COUPLERS THAT GO FROM THE INTERCOOLER TO THE THROTTLE BODY, that we could tell were loose and we could hear them hiss, and see where the oil was spraying out (ill explain the oil in a second)

CAR RAN OUT OF FUEL AT 5200RPM. At that point, it was at 670 torque, and the HP curve had not yet crossed the torque curve. Please, let me repeat...

*ALL THAT I IMPROVED WAS THE NOEPRENE COUPLERS THAT GO FROM THE INTERCOOLER TO THE THROTTLE BODY.

I installed a customized RSI tripple in tank pump (only 2 pumps run, but the other pump is there to turn on in the event one of the other 2 255 pumps fail.)

Car is making just under 800 at the wheels now.

Ready for this? There are still MORE boost leaks and restrictions to be remedied, as Lingenfelter runs RESTRICTIVE SOFT pipe from the turbos, forward, to the intercooler.

ALL OF THESE CARS ARE $30,000+ Lingenfelter recipt cars. 2 have over $70,000 in recipts.

$70,000 dollars, and the worlds premier corvette shop can't spare the dime to install a second fuel pump? Or maybe they are just scared to ask for 1000 more dollars to fabricate up an in tank pump setup and install a second pump? .. after they have asked for +$30,000 to do everything else, like forge a motor that is at the mercy of an ambitious chevy technician who notices a leak in the boost piping and fixes it.

As I stated earlier, this problem has been going on for quite some time... my evidence says from 99-07

Im creating this thread, because i want to see just how common this problem is, or if i just won the bad luck lottery, and had their only 4 cars they made a mistake on.

Now, i cant speak for their latest and greatest Lingenfelter creations, but what I am saying is...

If you have a lingenfelter car... there is a VERY GOOD CHANCE...
YOU NEED A BETTER FUEL SYSTEM.

Many shops are running the big aeromotive eliminator pumps, or boost a pumps, or inline pumps... all these have negative tradeoffs.

IT DRIVES ME INSANE... THAT THE SOLUTION IS SO SIMPLE TO PUT 2 PARALLEL IN TANK PUMPS, that dont overheat, IN THE TANK, AND SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

Put bigger fuel rails on the car and a bigger feed line, add a regulator and a return line.

*ALL 4 OF THESE LINGENFELTER CARS HAD THE STOCK FUEL LINES AND RAILS.

70,000 dollars in recipts.... do you think the customer said "no, i cant afford 200 dollar fuel rails!" ????

If you have had a lingenfelter engine come appart, I would seriously rewind in your mind, and figure out if there was a time that the boost piping or neoprene couplers may have been improved, and I can almost assure you, this is where your problem occured.

For lingenfelter to do this in the first place is plain lazy and dirty in my opinion.

One can argue it is an honest mistake, but how? Youre telling me every car they have ever put twn turbos on, NEVER NEEDED ANOTHER FUEL PUMP? You're telling me, they didnt realize "our other car that didnt leak needed 2 fuel pumps, maybe this one with twin turbos will as well?"

4 out of 4 cars ive put my hands on, hp numbers were coincidentally just shy of peak injector duty... and once we fixed the leaks, all ran out of fuel well before 6000rpm.

I have no reason to lie. My family owns 19 car dealerships in central ohio. I have mentioned this "problem" to lingenfelter several times over the past 7 years, and it appears, they frankly do not care.

If they have corrected this problem, great, but i dont see any threads, where they are warning previous customers with older pre 2007 cars, of this engine detonating situation (Assuming they fixed it after my black 2007 z06 i recently purchased.)

Frankly, i get a kick out of it, i keep buying up their used cars... investing a whole 3000 dollars on a bullet proof fuel system, and making roughly 100 to 200 more horsepower at the wheels, and also knowing the fuel system is far more reliable.

Dear Lingenfelter...
IF... you are going to install intentional boost leaks because you dont want your cars to run lean and run out of fuel because installing another fuel pump is too daunting of a task, maybe install a custome blow off/wastegate valve on the boost pipe so the customer at least knows whats going on.

Thank you."